Malika Daya: Hi everyone and welcome to the Knowledge Equity Lab’s newest podcast season, From Campus to Career, Development Practitioners in Action. In this series, we’ll be speaking to some of the stellar alumni from University of Toronto’s International Development Studies Co-op program, learning about their time in the program and beyond; exploring the diverse choices, pathways and experiences that shaped their careers in global development.

I’m Malika Daya, your host for this season. I’m also a graduate of the IDS Co-op Program at UTSC, now working in the intersections of theatre and development.

On today’s episode, we’ll be speaking with Aly-Khan Rajani. Aly-Khan began his journey with a degree in International Development and Political Science at UTSC, continuing his journey with a master’s in Public Administration in National Security. For several years, he worked with UNHabitat, Care International and Canada in numerous global roles in humanitarian emergency coordination and development program management, before joining the Canadian International Development Agency, CIDA, in 2007. Aly-Khan has been senior advisor on the Afghanistan Task Force and seconded to the Privy Council Office, senior analyst for donor relations, senior advisor to the president of CIDA, and departmental liaison to the Office of the Minister of International Development.

His assignments overseas have included Cairo and Beirut as Head of Cooperation and New Delhi as Head of Advocacy and Public Affairs and acting Head of Political and Economic Affairs for Mumbai. He recently completed his term as Canada’s Ambassador to the Republic of South Sudan and currently serves as the Director for Regional Coordination, Policy and Planning of Canada’s Indo-Pacific Strategy Secretariat at Global Affairs Canada in Ottawa. We are so excited to welcome to our podcast Aly-Khan Rajani.

Thanks for joining us. I’ve heard a lot about you from Leslie. And so I’m thrilled. And this is really for current students, students who are thinking about entering international development and then early career practitioners to learn a little bit about your journey coming into the program and then your vast career outside of it. So I guess question number one for you would be what inspired you to go into international development at all?

Aly-Khan Rajani: First of all, thank you so much for having me Malika. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here today. I think a lot of it was rooted in my family’s history. My family immediately comes from East Africa and left under political circumstances in Uganda in 1972 and came to Canada as political refugees. But our family is all of Indian origin, Muslims of Indian origin, which adds another layer to the identity. But in understanding when my parents talked about back home, they were talking about Kenya or Uganda. And then the cultural elements, the, you know, some of the food we’d eat, the music we’d listen to at times, some of the clothes that we would wear were actually from a different tradition of our ancestors from India. And at the end of the day, I think what my parents really emphasized when we were growing up is the fact that we had these multiple identities and came from this rich background of a really diverse set of cultures, but ultimately that made us who we are.

And in line with that really wanted us to see the world and emphasize even if we didn’t have a lot of money, they didn’t come with a lot when they came to this country, but made it a priority for us as they started to rebuild their lives in Canada in 1972 onwards, to prioritize the idea of their children, us, myself and my sister seeing the world. So over our holidays, we would get out, even if it was local and going to a local campground or whatever it was, to be exposed to the idea of different societies, diversities and identities around us and especially traveling abroad to understand where we came from, what other places look like and how people are different and their practices are different. And I think all of that fundamentally shaped my interest in doing something international.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t know what that was exactly because international development studies or IDS wasn’t really a big thing back in the day when I was applying to the program in the late nineties. So at the end of the day, actually the internet wasn’t that popular either. So this really sounds like a dinosaur story, but I’ll tell it anyways for context is when I was interested in looking at what I should study as my undergrad degree, and I was still in high school, I went to the career counselor and looked up in a printed index that had a list of every program being offered across Canada. And I looked, went to “I” because I knew I wanted something international and I knew that international relations existed as an area of study. And while looking for IR stumbled upon international development studies because it came alphabetically ahead. And as soon as I read the description of the program and particularly the one at U of T, I said, this, this is what I want to do. And it all started from there. I wrote to UTSC, University of Toronto at Scarborough campus and asked for an application form which got mailed to me. I wrote my essays by hand, I snail mailed them back. And before I knew it, I was entering a program with five other people, only six were chosen in the first year to start in the fall. I’d never been to Toronto. I was born in Vancouver, raised in Edmonton.

Had never been to that big city and all of a sudden – and I planned to stay home, go to U of A and live a pretty simple undergrad life, so I could save money and do my master’s somewhere else. And yet when the opportunity of doing not only international development, but co-op arose, and then that’s why the program was so small because it was expensive to run, I knew I had to take it. And I think growing up again, traveling and being exposed to different places, sure, it was a new adventure and I was surely nervous, but I wasn’t afraid. And I think I was always taught growing up to take opportunities when they present themselves and create them where you can. So that’s the story of how I ended up in the development program and why I was inspired into international development. I should add there’s one other element. Now that’s really growing up with a set of values where you take the best of what you’re raised with by your parents and the people around you, your community, but also the country we live in. And I think the Canadian values really merged with my own and understanding that there’s a reason why you do what you choose to do. And for me, it was very clear knowing my own history is that I needed to give back because when I went to East Africa or India or many other countries, that we visited as kids – on a shoestring budget, granted, this wasn’t luxury travel necessarily – but the point is we were exposed. We saw kids on the streets begging, not in school. But they were also some of the happiest kids we saw. But the point is, I have the great fortune, right, of being in Canada, being raised in a country that’s safe and secure and embraces diversity and multiculturalism. But what about those kids? And could I have not been?

And I knew. I could have been one of those kids on the street. So I think that really the value set that came with that and the understanding that it was just chance really that I ended up in Canada and where I was gave me the opportunity to develop myself enough. And then at the end of the day, what do you do with that? And I think as citizens of the world, we have a responsibility to give back and to do everything we can to be able to make the world a better place and leave it a bit better than perhaps what we had. And that is just really the set of factors that motivated my journey to development studies.

Malika Daya: I resonate with a lot of what you said. My family’s also from East Africa, originally India, traveled here, raised in Alberta as well. And hear you and you say like, what can we do with all of that privilege and the fortune of being able to live the lives we were very lucky to be given. And you’ve had years of career experience. If you could talk to us a little bit about perhaps even where you did your co-op, what your co-op was, and then into post-university, what your path looked like and what your journey looked like.

Aly-Khan Rajani: I’ve been really fortunate, I think, to have always had great jobs. And I think I always laugh with people that I’ve been really lucky. I’ve never had a job I didn’t like. And I think the pathway was one that just set me up really well and was one that just continued to build from the last experience. And I’ll tell you a little bit about the journey from U of T onwards. So first of all, I just can’t emphasize enough how much for me it mattered that I had work experience before I finished school. And that’s why I chose to come across the country and do the co-op program. And my co-op was in Zambia with CARE at the time, and Zambia was one of the offices that was managed by CARE Canada in Ottawa. So I had a fantastic experience, was given a lot of responsibility. My immediate boss and supervisor was actually also an alumnus of IDS, a co-op. So in fact had done the same program as had the country director of CARE Zambia. So I was working under two brilliant Canadians who actually understood my program and also understood the opportunity that it could be. So I think again, when I say I’ve been very lucky to have great jobs, I really have because from day one, I was given a huge portfolio and responsibility to work on shaping a network for all of CARE to gather the lessons learned from their urban development programming. And urban development programming wasn’t as vast as it is now.

So it was a new thing and it was really meant to be a learning and knowledge network. And it was like, go, go forth and make it happen. And I got to design it and pull together a conference from the best urban development practitioners and run it and so many other things. And I think that really shaped my understanding of the practical nature of development, but also that learning or orientation we need to have as professionals. And this is what really ultimately helped my career path. It’s not just the work experience, but also the exposure to those people along the way, like the two supervisors and mentors that I had in Zambia, both who happened to be Canadian. 

And in fact, my supervisor at the time said to me, at the end of my time – and I like to be organized, I’m a planner, so I worry about things like, what am I gonna do when I grow up? And I have one more year to write up my undergrad thesis from the research I did in Zambia, and then what? So I was already concerned about what happens next. –  And it was that boss, Darren Headley, who said to me, there’s this job poster I saw for UN Habitat in Afghanistan, and you should apply. When I looked at the qualifications, I said, I don’t think I have these. He said, apply anyway. I know the person who’s doing the hiring, and they really need people. And what ended up coming out of that was not getting that job, but getting another job in the same organization because they had multiple needs, even if the poster was about one particular role. 

So from there, I finished, in fact, got a call from Kabul. The war had started by then in 2002 and was called to say, when can you get here? There wasn’t even really a formal interview. So again, references matter and that work experience and frankly just getting someone to pick up the phone and say, this person’s really capable and I think they’d add to your team mattered a lot because I’d never worked in a war zone. I’d surely never been to Afghanistan. And I’d had basically one or two jobs in my life, probably one of which was paid pretty basically as a researcher for the government of Alberta over a summer. Then this, but I’d worked at U of T actually throughout as an invigilator and other things.

At the end of the day, this was like a real job with the UN and it was like, I haven’t even finished my undergrad thesis and here I go, going to a war zone to do something, you know, hopefully of some value. Long story short, that was such a defining experience again. And from there, I actually had applied for a number of jobs because I knew that was a short contract and ended up back with Care Canada who knew my work from Zambia. So again, the link just continues back to that co-op term.

And after doing that, and working for CARE for several years actually in humanitarian responses, CARE Canada as communications head and chief spokesperson and media coordinator for CARE International during high profile humanitarian emergencies, which is not what I’d studied. I’d studied long-term development, but there I was and I hadn’t studied communications or journalism, but there I was running a comms shop and then on TV and doing interviews all the time, during the Lebanon War, the Indonesian tsunami, the Kashmir earthquake, and a number of other humanitarian crises at the time, where I was the face, not only for CARE, but very proudly Canadian. And I think CARE Canada really wanted a Canadian to be at the fore, and I was again, very lucky to have that kind of a role. 

And from there, really, after several years, I got a phone call from what was at the time CIDA, the Canadian International Development Agency, saying, look, we’re looking for people that have experience in Afghanistan. Of course, I’d worked for the UN in Afghanistan, thanks to that first job, paid job, and then after that, had done work on Afghanistan with CARE as the program manager for all of Asia, amongst other roles. So I had some experience. Canada’s focus was in Kandahar, as we remember back in the day.

And there was a need for people with some expertise there. And I thought to myself, okay, let me think about my career so far. I’ve worked in the NGO sector, I’ve worked for the UN, I haven’t worked for the government. So that makes sense as a next step. I’ve worked in humanitarian, I’ve worked in development, and I’ve worked in communications, So the government job offered me policy and it offered me exposure to how government functions, how funding functions and how ultimately decisions are made to affect all of Canada’s aid, for example. So I went to the Afghanistan task force at what was then CIDA and eventually the Department of Foreign Affairs merged with that agency. And we are now known after a few iterations as Global Affairs Canada, which is where I still work. And during that time, after spending several years working in policy, working for the President of CIDA as her senior policy advisor. I was really fortunate to go out as the Head of Aid to Egypt in our embassy there and got to really work on a whole program there, working with various Canadian and UN and multilateral partners, shaping the work that we could do not only to support Egyptians, but also the regional crisis at the time where there were so many Syrians coming in to Egypt, as well as Lebanon and other parts of the Middle East.

So we developed a whole separate but integrated program for Syrian refugees and their Egyptian host communities. After that, it was actually Lebanon and I spent time there again, dealing primarily with the Syrian refugee crisis. So all of my humanitarian work came back into play, but it was in crisis, but actually doing development work as well, which then all of my care experience came into play as well as of course, my development studies. 

And then after that, decided to switch gears as you can get a sense from, like to switch things up and do things differently and keep learning and growing. So I actually, my next job was in India where I was the head of advocacy and public affairs, six months into that more political role as opposed to a development role, COVID happens. I ended up taking on a series of other roles across the India network for the High Commission of Canada there and develop a whole other set of expertise and interestingly take know, pull from my knowledge of humanitarian and emergency response, as the head for all communications and information for the evacuation of 50,000 Canadians from all across India, as well as Nepal to Canada during COVID. 

So after that, I was back in headquarters and polished up on my French language skills because the diplomats absolutely required in Canada to be bilingual, which is, you know, a hallmark of our values again in action. And then had the phenomenal privilege, I mean the ultimate privilege of being named by Canada’s Governor General as Canada’s Ambassador to South Sudan. And when I think back to that whole journey and especially where I landed, I’m back in East Africa where my family’s from. I visited as a kid and had studied all these things and had done a lot of different, taken on different roles and all of them came into play, right? I had to understand programming. We were programming $75 million a year in South Sudan on development and humanitarian. I was dealing with policy and anti-corruption and, you know, human rights and all sorts of other issues, governance, building a new democratic state. It was a young nation. Everything I’d studied and learned and did in different ways started to come into play. So that was a really, you know, fantastic and just foundational experience, you know, and really it was the pinnacle of my career in a lot of ways I thought. And then of course you have to decide what you do next or figure out what you do next. And I think what came next has been even a further combination of that experience, which is my current job, which is the Director of Canada’s Indo-Pacific Strategy at Global Affairs, which is really taking a holistic whole of society approach to how Canada engages with various parts of Asia, which covers 40 countries. And especially given current happenings, I think it’s even more important that we look at the region in a much more strategic way and continue to engage more deeply and more widely across that space. And again, I have the great privilege to oversee that work and lead a team of super dedicated people, not just in Ottawa, but around the whole region. Who are working endlessly, I tell you, on trying to put our best foot forward to build those partnerships all over Asia for Canadian interests at the end of the day, given all of the recent happenings, but also really investing in our long-term security and economic stability, which regardless had to happen. And I think this is just a great opportunity to really build that. So that’s where I’ve been and this is where I currently am.

Malika Daya: Wow, Aly-Khan, seriously such a vast career, but also so amazing how all of the dots connect to where you are now and all of the intentional choices you made to be where you are now too. So as you reflect on this journey, were there challenges that you felt helped shape the way you think about development or your career or any key learnings that have really stuck with you or that you think would be important to share with folks who are thinking about building a career in this sector?

Aly-Khan: It’s a great question and it’s one that really does require you to think back and really reflect on where one has been and how the journey was because when you’re telling a story quickly, it’s about approach, it’s about perspective. And I think for me, it’s always about looking for the next opportunity, not from an ambitious perspective, but from the perspective of wanting to grow and learn. And I think that learning orientation and that growth sort of potential being seen in everyone around you as well as yourself, I think is really important. And that’s a general statement and comment, but I think the one that applies equally to people in any line of work, but especially in international work. And I say that because it is not ever the same. It’s such a dynamic environment. So there are times where, for example, when I studied development and went to Zambia, for my co-op term, it was a relatively comfortable place to live, it was slowly developing. It was not extremely, extremely poor. Of course, there were pockets of poverty, so you’re exposed to that. But the point is that it was still a stable place that had hope. You could see the potential, and it was getting there. But then to end up in a place like Afghanistan, war-torn, in the middle of it all, I think back, what possessed me to think I was capable of doing that, right? I lived a very comfortable life in Canada where these were stories that belonged to somebody else and not to me. So I didn’t have to do it. I wasn’t exposed to it. Maybe I wasn’t even capable… all these things ran through my mind and surely my family worried about going into a dangerous area, but they never stopped me. And I think that’s another big piece is having people around you that support you.

And even if they don’t really understand what that development thing is, or what could happen when you’re in a place like Afghanistan or Iraq or Lebanon or Syria, or wherever it might be in the world, it’s about conviction. I think it’s about really having passion and leading with that, lead with passion and conviction. What turns you on? What makes you get up in the morning? What is your raison d’etre? Why is it that I’m here? And ultimately, what’s my legacy, right?

We, again. are in a great privileged space where most of us don’t have to worry about where the next meal will come from. Of course, we have poverty in Canada as well. And there are many developmental issues that still can be dealt with here, including our own Indigenous populations. But I think, again, when we take it on the grand scale of things, there are Indigenous populations in many countries that require support. And in my studies and my pathway has been focusing abroad versus in Canada. Although again, as I work in the federal government and in global affairs, especially in the current environment, the linkage back to Canada matters so much. So I think that’s another piece I’d say is always sort of know where you come from. Don’t forget where we come from. We take our Canadian values with us wherever we go. We share them. We build on them. We grow from them. And those are compounded with our own personal values. And when they align I think great things can happen.

And so for me, I’m so glad I pushed myself, let me put it to you simply, that had I not taken the leap to go to tough places and fragile states and war zones or humanitarian crises, literally walking around dead bodies after the tsunami in Indonesia and Banda Aceh in 2005, etc., would have never realized that I could do that work and that that’s actually where I was actually at my very best. Communication, same thing. I never studied it a day. I love to talk, I was always told that as a child and I knew it. But who thought that that could be a career path in a lot of ways? And then even if it’s not the main thing you do, well, if you’re an ambassador, you have to be ready to speak to diplomats and officials and community members and the media and everyone else all the time. And not just talk, but talk sensibly and make sure that you’ve connected the dots and aligned everything and know your audience and, you know, communicate with conviction. And also with an intention to actually affect change. 

And I think the last piece  on some of the lessons is again, building on the idea of what’s your purpose. Why are you here? What do you want to achieve out of that? And I think when the goals are broader than just for being for you, when they’re not egocentric or about what I can gain and what I can benefit, what I can be when I grow up, I think as soon as that takes a back seat to the equation, think amazing things can happen because I think you can really watch the world absorb, understand, reflect. and then decide where you can fit into this picture and how you can contribute. And I think we almost need to put away the ego, the other noises, and be able to really then focus on why we’re here and what we can do as Canadians, as citizens of the world, as people that came from a certain place or not. But I think we all have something to contribute and we have to find that piece and ultimately realize it’s just a piece but all those pieces matter and they accumulate to being something much greater. And so we can’t forsake that we have to step up and play our part.

Malika Daya: Absolutely, absolutely. What do you feel is the most fulfilling or the most impactful part of the work? What is it that you find fulfillment or joy in when it comes to your role?

Aly-Khan: Well, currently being the Director for the Indo-Pacific Strategy for Global Affairs, I think the great privilege I have is to be able to do what I know I’m good at, which is connect the dots, right? Talk to multiple people, build relationships, help build a network. Again, takes an entire department and government infrastructure, but not only government, right? We need civil society, we need NGOs and think tanks, academics, need the diaspora and so many others and in so many government departments work on various parts of this initiative to engage more deeply in the Indo-Pacific. For me, it’s a great role because I’m a connector by nature. So for me, this is a role that actually allows me to take the best of the skills I’ve developed and apply them. And I think that’s what makes it exciting also because there’s so much potential.

Even, you know, and of course this is not that we didn’t have relationships across Asia. We’ve had them for a long time. But in fact, now it’s about looking at them from a different vantage point. It’s about looking at those, those representational offices like embassies and high commissions and consulates, not only to serve, you know, Canadians there, but also to look at economic and larger interests back in Canada and make the connections as to how companies can work together, how people to people ties, academics, whatever it is. And it’s just such a vast space. So when I think about all the things we can do in building economic prosperity, security, diversification of trade and other partnerships across the Indo-Pacific region with Canada, it’s like the best job in the world, right? Because I actually get to do what I feel I can contribute to, but know that I’m just one piece of a much larger puzzle, but it’s moving in a direction towards really building something. So if we can open doors for Canadian business, if we can work towards diversifying our trade, if we can position Canada as a partner of choice, if we can contribute to more free and open democratic rules-based environments where we take into account understanding that security is interconnected now, right? Regional security in the Indo-Pacific or Asia matters to us just as much. It’s not that it’s over there. And I think that’s a big part of what we can contribute is to peace and security and really building partnerships based on shared values. And I think the dynamic has changed in how we interact with various countries like Korea or Japan or Philippines and so many others, where the dynamic and what they bring to the table is just as valuable to us, as the opposite. And I think that’s really restructuring how we engage. And ultimately, when we can leverage the linkages back home, and I don’t mean just economic and business, but people, right? Our multicultural heritage, our diaspora, people that are linked to those places already, and again, connect the dots. I think it’s a super powerful thing. So as you can tell, I love my job.

Because it really allows me to contribute to us building resilience in many forms, be innovative, diversify, connect, share values that we have, build partnerships, and ultimately know that that synergy is meant to serve all of us better and ultimately to help us as Canadians to solidify our grounding for the long term.

Malika Daya: Yeah, what I really love about what you’re saying is how your role is to deepen the interconnectedness between all of us and to help us see the value in it, So in practice, what does your role look like day to day? Like what does a typical day in Aly-Khan’s life look like?

Aly-Khan: Well, there are no two days that are ever the same, that’s for sure. It’s a super dynamic environment, no doubt. That changes from minute to minute, hour to hour, because as you take on different roles and more senior roles, usually the area you’re covering continues to grow. But sometimes that’s not the case, you can focus on one country and really go deep as well, like when you’re an ambassador. But ultimately, the day involves several elements. And I think the first one is, again, spending a lot of time engaging. So speaking to our partners, talking to academics, reading their work, what do they think we should be doing in the region? What could Canada have to offer, right, to the Indo-Pacific, for example? Meeting with business delegations, meeting with diplomats coming from across the region as well, to visit us and talk to us about what we can do together. So the first and the biggest thing is building relationships and talking to people so we actually understand the potential, the dynamics, and ultimately what we can practically do, right? And build something and move towards a result. And the same has to happen internally, right? The government is huge. We work with provinces and territories. We’re working across various parts of civil society, but also across the government of Canada federally.

And all of that needs to come together as well. So a lot of talking, a lot of reading, and then ultimately that’s synthesizing all of that and saying, so what, where does this all come together? You have all of these different conversations happening, all these amazing relationships in various parts of the region. How do they come together or what’s that sort of strategic level piece that binds that umbrella, that we can look at and say, okay, here’s where we’re trying to go as Canada in this region and here’s why. And here’s why it matters. And here are the pillars or the big, you know, broad pieces of how we’re going to get there. And then within that or underneath that, what are the specific initiatives? What are the projects? What can we fund? What can we do? Where should we be more engaged? Where do we need to have, you know, people put their time and their effort to build something, whatever that relationship is that needs to be built for ultimately a better outcome of mutual interest, right, for Canada as well as that country, for the region. 

And then again, there are these broader objectives of economic stability, right, of security and defense, of making sure the world is greener and more sustainable, that we have stronger people-to-people ties, but again, for what ends? So that we can use those interconnections so that when things happen, or even before they happen, we’ve actually built a base from which to be able to engage, to be able to grow economically, to defend ourselves or provide, you know, share security considerations and really move forward together because the sum of all the parts surely is much greater than, you know, us individually doing our little pieces in isolation. And we know that, I think, from history. So my day really has a lot of engagement, a lot of reading, a lot of writing and approval of different recommendations that we send up to the senior management. And ultimately, then constantly thinking about the big picture, constantly trying to make the linkage, ask the so what questions, but also practically, right? Keep a team motivated, keeping everyone steering in the same direction, connecting the dots and frankly trying to move, you know, huge pieces. And we’re not doing it alone, right? There’s no way I could do any of this if there weren’t, you know, thousands of people working on this all over in the various parts of society, frankly. And that’s why the Indo-Pacific strategy is called a whole of society approach. It really does take more than a village. It takes everybody to build this and make it happen. And I think, again, that’s where I take my inspiration, but also what guides my day. I have to think bigger and broader because that’s the mandate and that’s how huge the challenge is, but also the opportunity.

Malika Daya: Yeah, rooting yourself in why you’re here and why you’re doing this. So over your time in the sector, whether it’s through your humanitarian work, whether it’s through government, how have you seen development evolve over the years, how do you look at the future of international development?

Aly-Khan: When I think back to my time in studying development at U of T so many years ago, it was such a fundamental and foundational basis to understand how interconnected issues are. So we studied everything from political economy to hardcore politics, anthropology, language. You know, cultural studies, human rights based approaches and all sorts of other things. And to recognize and realize that that’s still relevant today, I think is huge, because the first piece is just to get that, this is not a one way track. It’s simply too interconnected. The world now is so interconnected, even technologically, that those connections happen much faster and you can’t ignore them. Even if we had to dig into them before or study them. So some things haven’t changed, in that the interconnectedness of the issues continue, but I think it’s actually become more apparent, more profound, and much more meaningful in the way of its potential impact, because it is just there, it happens so instantly now with technology.

But what has definitely changed from my perspective over time, is thinking about the history of development and what we learned as students about where things were. You know, development really has always been an adaptive tool. For example, the funding part, from arms of government. And it always was emerging and changing based on needs and shifting issues and relationships. So that I think still continues and we continue to be pretty adaptable, trying to respond to needs. But in the, you know, from the 50s to the 70s, I think the development era was focused on post-war reconstruction, modernization, rebuilding Europe, and, you know, supporting new independent states in, you know, in Africa and Asia and Latin America, for example. And the approach was very much focused on infrastructure, on industrialization, on institution building, for example. And then came in the 80s, where the IMF and the World Bank structural adjustment programs and starting to deal with some of the more economic issues really were emphasized, but also new ways of literally doing business, right? Privatization and liberalization. There’s a global debt crisis going on. I mean, the world has changed and we’ve had to adapt again. And this led to, I think, doing more country specific approaches and more equitable sort of models. And eventually shifting into the nineties, looking at human development more.

Talking about the MDGs, if you remember those, Millennium Development Goals, you know, in that time, and more participatory work, rights-based work, a focus on poverty reduction as really being something that we need to tackle as an international community, and then more engagement, I think, of CSOs, civil society, multilateral organizations. And then came the era of the 2000s, where it was about aid effectiveness, sustainable development was a key, you know, approach and really talking about, we have to do more, do better by being more coordinated, be more effective, stretch the dollar more and really starting to understand that issues are very universal, that they’re very global in nature. Climate is a shared, you know, issue that we have to tackle together. Sustainability becomes, you know, something that’s more apparent as a goal that we need to focus on. And really all these ideas of multi-stakeholder relationships become more prominent. The SDGs come about, of course, the sustainable development goals, and ultimately, we start to realize how much international assistance is pursued always in times of economic and geopolitical change. So the separation of those ideas of “oh we’re just doing development in this lane here” while this is going on, I just don’t think is something that works today. And that’s changed. And frankly, I think we recognize that it doesn’t work in its isolation, it’s always been interconnected. But now we really have to respond even more so than before in a very interconnected way. 

So, you know, I think today a lot of the changes in development have been around connecting the dots between trade, infrastructure, international assistance, investment, they’re all critical tools of development, but also of diplomacy, right? They start coming together and we start looking at them together. I think there’s also a recognition that we have to look at development and security together. They’re so intertwined when it comes to the issues around migration, fragile states, obviously wars and other situations of so many kinds of conflict, migration pressures, climate insecurity, right? I mean, all of those issues are not only threatening local populations, which are often development focused, but now it’s also threatening global stability, which makes it so much of a bigger issue. And again, we can’t look at them separately. I think today also we really talk more and more in development about the blending of development, diplomacy, defense, and trade. And I know for those of us who studied development back in the day and know the history of development, that’s sometimes really difficult to absorb, right? Because we don’t want to lose the essence of what development has been about, which has often been about poverty alleviation and supporting growth. But ultimately, supporting growth doesn’t happen in isolation. And I think that’s my lesson over time.

We can’t look at it as something that you can do by itself without tackling all the other issues. So, you know, then we have to look at all the tools in our toolbox and use them as effectively as we can in a responsible, ethical, appropriate way. But the point is, if we don’t maximize everything we’ve got to offer and understand the interlinkages, all the good work we’re doing could be undermined by something much greater because we didn’t also address at the same time the security issue or whatever other issues that, you know are also there. 

I think the other trend currently and looking forward is very much unique new kinds of partnerships. I think there’s been lots of talk over the years about the trade and development nexus, but really partnerships with the private sector and private companies will continue to grow is my guess, especially in infrastructure, in climate finance, in skills development, and digital development. These are all newer areas that are not new, new to development but continue to grow and I think are where the future could also lie more. And I think really as we look ahead that we need to be flexible and nimble and quickly pivot, lean into things as they come up is even more so than before. Development’s always been dynamic, it’s not to suggest otherwise.

But the world changes so quickly, we’re connected so much more, things happen faster and we have to respond quicker, right? Like we’re obsessed with needing to respond now. We’ve got our phones on us all the time and frankly, things are happening at a pace that seem much more elevated and much more quick and therefore demands a much more rapid response. So I think the nature of how we do development thinking long-term, well, keeping that in mind, because it’s essential long-term changes is still key, we have to figure out those interim steps of how to also have quick wins, but also deal with the immediate issues. While keeping an eye on the long-term and sustainability aspects, but really getting that in between piece right, because it otherwise just doesn’t get to where it needs to go.

Malika Daya: Yeah, especially in a very heavy moment of global crisis, I think a lot of students as they go through the development program are really learning about critical thinking and critical analysis of the world in which we live in. In your career, you’ve seen so much. How do you stay motivated in a field that’s constantly grappling with these complex and urgent deep rooted global inequities? I know you talked about really holding on to your purpose and knowing why you’re here. So I’m sure that’s a part of it. But I just wanted to offer that to you, as many students ask these questions of, how do you keep going when the world is constantly in crisis?

Aly-Khan: It’s a really good question and I think one does have to reach deep down and ask oneself why they’re here, what they’re here to do. Why all this matters, what’s my role within it? And for me, it boils down to passion, right? Identifying what my passion is, what my purpose is. That’s first and foremost, and then not losing that in the course of the day and the craziness of what might be the world at times, because ultimately we have to go back to our roots, right? Our values, what I talked about growing up and just what motivates you, what you stand for, who you are and what you are. I think we spend a lot of time today talking about doing work on ourselves. And I think understanding oneself, actually is to me, the key of how I keep motivated. Because if I get where I’m trying to go, even if that goal may be lofty, or I may never even achieve all of it, I know that I’m moving towards it. And I think when that happens, it doesn’t go unnoticed. I mean, people want to join you, right? People want to work with you and you want to work with others that are like minded, or not like minded for that matter, but work towards getting somewhere. And I think that can motivate others and keep you and me motivated as well to do what we need to do. So I think a lot of it is about identifying what it is that turns you on, what makes you passionate, gets you up in the morning, why you’re here, what you want to do, understanding that there are other people that have that too and find people that share those values or also find the people that may be obstacles towards reaching those goals and work with them, right? Build the relationships and look at it as an opportunity instead of, I have to go, you know, make friends with X to do Y. Well, no, it’s actually part of like understanding where they’re coming from, right? And a lot of our societal problems fundamentally are about needing more dialogue, about understanding each other, about really building on mutual understandings and commonalities and values and strengths, versus the divisive part of things that have made things so complicated. Now I’m simplifying it. Obviously it’s a very complex process, but we can’t give up. And I think that’s also a big part of it is understanding that we’ve got to put the work in, right? The fruits of my labor will eventually deliver something and get somewhere. And if it’s in line with what they’re doing and you can find that alignment and build a movement, so to speak, that’s a pretty powerful thing. So the idea of having collaboration and collaborative networks ultimately really, I think helps a lot. And I think again, who you surround yourself by, matters. Not only because you can build a network and go somewhere and do something, it’s who you learn from. And I think taking a long-term learning orientation, lifelong learning, right? I mean, we’re constantly evolving. That matters a lot in understanding that every day, and I say it, I learn every single day in my job. And it’s so true, like every hour. And if that’s the approach, then you sort of your zest for life keeps you going, I think.

The last part I wanted to mention is really embracing diversity. I think we live in a space where, you know, it’s not about tolerance and tolerating people anymore. It’s about trying to really understand, even if we don’t agree, right, where people come from, but also understand that maybe certain tables are not built with you in mind. They never had someone that looked or sounded like me or had my, you know, beliefs or whatever at the table. And that’s not, to me, it’s never been a barrier. Yes, it may be the case, but that’s an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for me to like stand up, you know, offer to take a spot at the table. Sometimes you have to demand your spot at the table, but generally we’re in a pretty, you know, open society where in Canada, at least we have those opportunities come, where you can at least make the case and find some space. And I think, again, you have to do that in stride and try to find those. Grow them, build them. But then when you show up at the table, make sure that it’s clear that you’re adding value because you’re being thoughtful, because you’re representing the values of what pluralism is about. And if pluralism is supposed to be a strength, then show that, right? To go into the room with, going into a room with an approach of trying to build those relationships, find synergies, find common ground, work on common solutions.

That’s the job and that’s the goal to me. So I think what keeps me motivated is really thinking about how all this comes together. These are mammoth undertakings. They’re huge tasks globally, which surely I’m not doing alone or can’t do alone. But I recognize that it doesn’t mean I sit back and do nothing. I have to do something. And whatever that is, and again, if I have to do something, then I need other people to do things too. And they’re there. They exist. Just finding them, finding my voice, finding my space within that and hoping to shape something better because we’re doing it together. Ultimately, I think not only gets me up, it keeps me going and it makes me want to go back to all sorts of crazy places and do adventurous things because I know that that’s what I’m destined to do.

Malika Daya: Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it really is about the people we build relationships with and moving through the challenges of our time together. Thank you for that great advice, Aly-Khan. Before we wrap up this podcast, I have one final question for you, what advice would you give to students or young professionals who are just beginning their journeys in international development?

Aly-Khan: Well, I know it’s easy to say at a certain point in one’s career that I could be the person to give advice. But sometimes actually, when you actually come with a fresh pair of eyes and fresh blood and a new way of looking at things, sometimes that’s the most valuable. I think having that curiosity matters a lot. And we can’t lose that in sometimes the doom and gloom of a media cycle or the news that we see. But at the same time, staying current and relevant, I think, is really important. Understanding the world is dynamic, making the linkages and understanding where we actually have opportunity. Second, I think it’s really important to gain practical experience early. Obviously studying and learning, I’m a firm believer in and it’s a lifelong journey to do that. But at the same time, there isn’t any substitute for actually doing, traveling, getting out, talking to different communities, different people, even within our own country to understand the diversity and the pluralism here, let alone abroad, I think is so key because when we understand that, I think we’re much better placed to be able to do something and contribute. And getting out there and actually doing the co-op programs, the traineeships, the mentorships, the internship programs that exist, I think is fundamental before only pursuing education because then you have a theoretical background, but no practical implementation ability until it’s quite you know, further along in the process.

I think in general, there is no substitute for learning. And that’s the next piece of advice. In the end, it doesn’t end in the classroom. It doesn’t end when you’re, you know, finishing school. It is a daily need in a way, frankly, to be better and understand what’s going on and continue to grow. 

I also think the idea of effective networks: to build them and to use them effectively, is so critical. You my entire career journey has been based on people connecting me to the next job or giving me advice on what I could do or should do or telling me, “you know, this skill is one you should develop more” or, you know, “you don’t have this and look at doing this” or “you’ve got this, but why don’t you build on it somehow?” And all of that advice, but also saying, “hey, I know someone in Afghanistan who’s, who’s hiring,” who would have thought that I would have ended up there, right? If that, you know, person had not triggered that idea in my mind, it wouldn’t have happened. But that’s about getting out there and talking to people, not with a negative stereotype that sometimes is associated with networking, because it’s not a dirty thing. I think it’s about wanting to understand and learn and grow and connect with people. And that’s a valuable thing. And I think it carries me through every day and will continue to carry others too, I believe.

I think nonlinear pathways, embracing them, understanding that that’s just how it goes. It’s not always sequential. It’s not always moving up. I think we’re in an era where we want things quickly. We want everything to happen right now because we live in that society of instantaneous, sort-of instant gratification and responses and all that. But ultimately, it’s not a race. And I think some things only come with time and experience, that probably sound like my parents now and an old person giving advice, but I think the pressure that comes with needing to do everything now is hard and sometimes maybe not necessary because with time you learn, you grow, you process and you develop more. 

We live in a huge pluralistic world and therefore understanding and speaking languages, understanding different communities and cultures, I think is key and that doesn’t go away no matter how much AI and other things exist, because connecting with people I think fundamentally is still a human trait, as much as it can be enhanced by some technology.

We talked briefly about community and I think finding your community is super key and that’s based on your values. It’s based on your interests. It’s based on who lifts you up, right? Who you surround yourself by ultimately shapes who you are because that’s who you’re spending your time with. So who are those people? They can be peers, mentors, organizations you volunteer in. I think volunteering is a great way to learn and to grow and be exposed to things that you may not be aware of. Seek advice, ask questions and really put yourself out there and it’s a lot. I mean, there’s a lot of pressure in doing that, but at the same time, right? Sometimes it’s just writing somebody on LinkedIn or whatever the networking tool might be to say, let me reach out and maybe they’ll reply, maybe they’ll respond. And having that curiosity and thirst for knowledge and learning, but also finding your… tribes, so to speak. But I think it’s not just your tribe. It’s actually understanding tribes and linking up to multiple parts of your identity. So it’s not just that I am this or I am that. And I think that’s a super powerful thing. 

Understanding rejection is part of the deal. It happens, right? I had to try many times to get out on posting before I did with the government, despite having managed government money and projects for many, many years. That wasn’t a rejection of me. At least I didn’t take it that way. It was partly just how the system worked at the time. Where they wanted more internal experience. And so you don’t give up and you apply, apply again, and eventually it happens. And that’s been the story for many things in my life. It’s not just you pick up the phone, use your network and you always get the job. I think rejection is something I have faced and dealt with and I didn’t see it as a failure. I think you see it as, okay, get up and try again, try another method, try something else, dig deep. Is this what you really want? Is this how you do it? 

And really, I think embrace diversity as your superpower. Like for me, it has been something that I bring without, I think, flaunting it too much, but just being who I am and saying, here’s how I show up and what I come with, and I want to be able to contribute. 

And finally, I think we constantly talk about this. It’s not a new piece of advice to anybody. It’s striking some kind of balance and particularly focusing on mental health. It’s something we don’t talk about, still, too much. And I think there’s so much shame associated sometimes with the idea of not being able to perform or being tired or having some kind of, you know, limitations for lack of a better term as to what one might be able to do. But I think we are also growing to the idea that these things are real, they matter, and they have huge impacts on us. And I think it’s less taboo than before to talk about mental health, you know, issues, but also taking care of your mental health. And so just do it and, you know, talk about it. It’s not about hiding it and making excuses.

I think the more we can share that I’ve had burnout or I get stressed out or I have, know, whatever it is, it can be in so many different forms. It doesn’t matter because the point is that is also part of diversity and pluralism and engaging and understanding each other is just what we come with. And those are things that we have to also work on and work on together.

Malika Daya: Thank you so much, Aly-Khan, for this advice and for all the knowledge you’ve shared with us during our time together. We are so grateful for you and your participation in this podcast. 

That’s a wrap on today’s episode from campus to career. Thank you listeners for joining us. New episodes in this series will be released every two weeks. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow the Knowledge Equity Lab on LinkedIn and Instagram for updates. Hope you’ll tune in for our future episodes with some incredible development practitioners just like Aly-Khan.